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Post by cottonzway on Sept 25, 2006 14:07:13 GMT -5
I have what I would consider a rather odd question. I guess though when it comes to the paranormal there aren’t really too many odd questions though. I was wondering if there are any cases of people dealing with some negative (be a spirit or even something demonic) and gave the same type of negative response right back at the thing? People are obviously very afraid of things of that nature. They usually just freeze up and allow the spirit to play on their emotions. I am curious though what would or does happen if you give it right back to them. Now I’m not all suggesting anyone to do this. It just came in my mind as a thought. I know how I would react if someone (living) came into my home looking to do harm to me and my family. It would be the worst mistake of their lives. That is just how I am looking after my loved ones. I think all of us have that side of us that is downright scary and almost evil when it comes to things like this. When someone has the intentions of doing us or loved ones harm we can be as nasty as a demonic entity IMO. Humans are built this way at the core. How would/could this translate to the paranormal? It would have to most likely be someone who has a few experiences already because I am sure the initial shock of learning the “big” question probably freezes anyone. That would probably depend on the person I guess. If someone did understand that the paranormal does exist and realizes they are in the presence of an evil spirit can they “scare” that presence away with their own emotions? Will it be afraid of you? If you had a reaction that was angry with a “teeth clinched” type of aura coming off you would it make the spirit back down at all? What if you made threats on it, cursed at it, and even showed signs of physical violence towards it? Sounds nuts and all but I would think over recorded history it has happened. This probably came up in my mind because of my affection of the martial arts. I have that “warrior’s spirit” that is talked about often. Now I haven’t showed violence towards another person since I was 15 that was not in a controlled environment (sports or martial arts) but I have been lucky to not get into those situations. Still though I am the protector of my family. I think if I came across something that made its intentions clear to do harm to me or more importantly those who are dear to me that I could “flip the switch” to the darker side of humanity to match its intentions. Let it know that not only would I fight it in this world but would bring war upon it in the next life as well for trying to harm those who are dear to me. I just don’t know if it controls us to the point of fear not allowing us to react like that. So can/does this happen? Are there any stories of what the outcome is of acting like this towards something with ill intentions? Can you match the ill intentions with the protective side of humans that brings out a very nasty side of us?
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Post by aneaglesangel on Sept 25, 2006 15:44:15 GMT -5
Hmm, that's a hard question. I'm probably one of the few people who has fought against a demon and won. Yes, I called out the warrior in myself, but what I think really did it was love. When I told that nasty negative energy feeder to leave and not come back, yes, it was with a warrior's heart that I spoke the words, but inside, it was the mother's heart sending love as a barrier between me and it. When I look back on it, it's the love I think that it could not conquer. I think evil or bad things use the power of hate to control others. They feed on the negative emotions that they can scare up out of a person. But then you hit them with love, and they have no defense other than to leave. I don't know if this is really what did it for me, but I have a feeling it just may be true.
This is just my opinion of course, but you have to remember, I believe that love can even transcend death itself. To me, love is the warrior's sword when it comes to these types of things. But no, I don't think you can throw evil or hate back at them, I think they like that and would just feed off those emotions, burp, and come back for some more. Make sense??
Here's another thought. We say there are two sides to everything. White/black, good/evil, well I see love/hate as the two opposing forces. If you throw the force at them that they are looking for, I don't think it would do much good, other than maybe making the thing a bit stronger. And no, I don't think calling one out would be a good idea either. To challenge it in that way would bring some very negative emotions into play, and like I say, I think they'd just eat that up!! Hope I helped at least a little cotton!!
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Post by cottonzway on Sept 25, 2006 18:19:04 GMT -5
I totally agree on spirits like that feeding off of negative energy. I think though they feed off of fear and causing anger towards each other living in a house. I wonder though how they deal with someone not being fearful of them and infact make it real clear that it is a bad idea to mess with them.
I kind of look at it like this as an example. My fiance walks sometimes and goes past a yard with a big dog who is very aggressive. It makes her uncomfortable and fearful of the dog. Now here I come walking my big dog and it starts the same stuff. After seeing how my dog reacted to it trying to go after me it became fearful of us two. Same mean spirited dog who bullies people and dogs walking by had someone stand up to it and is scared the death of my dog. I won't even walk my dog past there because it's like he knows it scared Jenn and would do anything in it's power to get on the otherside of the fence because of that. Because this animal had bad intentions on his "mom" he becomes almost evil like when I walked him past there causing this other dog to put it's tail between it's legs even though it's still a bully. My dog never knew he was like this towards here, just knew he hated that dog as soon as he saw it and he NEVER barks at dogs who even bark at him. This is coming from an animal (my pup) who sleeps in bed with a cat and would let you take a bone from him. LOL I think bullies need to be bullied sometimes and I wonder if this applies in this case. There is no bigger bully then a spirit of any kind that hurts people either physically or emotionally.
I wonder if spirits think deeply enough to choose who they haunt based on that. Like if they know someone would be like that and they simply move on to the next person because they know this person is strong willed then they are. If they know a particular person would "follow" them after they left the world so they either don't bother or if they try to encounter such a person find out and leave. Kind of like a car theif walking past a car with the Club in it and passes for any easier time.
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Post by aneaglesangel on Sept 25, 2006 19:42:35 GMT -5
Hmm, I see what your saying. Someone from a message board said that because they were evil, bad spirits didn't bother him. Sort of something to the effect of they recognized their own? I'm not sure if that is possible, but this person seemed convinced. In trying to stay safe in the field, I don't usually take chances. I stick to certain ways that are individual to me, and for someone else other things work. I've heard of people carrying certain crystals with them, others carry crosses, some wear jewelry. I've never heard of anyone carrying an attitude around, LOL!!
I think everyone has to find what they are comfortable with. Until we know exactly what we are dealing with, I don't think it's a good idea to try to bully a spirit. I do think it's a good idea to take it seriously and find a way that you feel safe working in the field. In my eyes, I try to treat spirits with respect. If they are not showing me respect back, then it's nothing I want to deal with. I do think being firm, and being in control of your fear as much as possible is the best thing. Bad things will feed on fear if they can get it. The same way you are taught to walk through an unfamiliar area, is the same way I think ya gotta walk when you're near one of the bad ones. Like how your dog walks past the bully dog, is how you walk past the bully spirits?? Make sense?? But to me, with those, you don't need them, keep on walking!!
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Post by lildebcc on Sept 27, 2006 20:47:00 GMT -5
Depends on what you deal with I would guess. I have had many encounters with Shadow People. I know that with them, if you react in any fear/angry/negative way, it makes them stronger; they feed off of it. You have to remember that anger is actually a fear reaction – so getting angry with an ‘evil’ spirit, or anything for that matter, is a show of fear. (Psychology 101). Making threats, showing signs of violence, cursing at it; it all shows fear, nothing more.
I do not use love to stop a malevolent entity’s assault on me. I try my best to look at the situation as ‘matter of factly as I can. Granted this is not easy, but after a while it can become second nature.
If you have that “warrior spirit”, that does not mean that you fight with the physical body. Any true Martial Artist knows that the greatest weapon that they have is their mind.
If you “flip the switch to the darker side of humanity to match its intentions”, are you not making yourself to be just as evil as the evil spirit you have come across? Two wrongs never to make a right. I would think that kind of reaction would only make things escalate even more.
I do agree that one needs to be firm and in control is a good thing. If they can not rattle you, you are not a challenge and they would probably back off.
>^o.o^<
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Post by mmecurie68 on Sept 29, 2006 19:13:46 GMT -5
Hmmm...it's certainly an interesting question -
On the physicality issue alone, a person may be a martial arts specialist, but even with the best training - after riding on an ambulance in a city where gunplay and heavy drug use is pretty routine - I'd have to say that a 120 lb. addict fresh off a 3-day meth. binge could take out Jet Li, no sweat - the reason being that a physical threat like that is completely unpredictable in every way. They are "chaos theory" in action.
Even being on guard 100% of the time you're with someone in that state is no guarantee that you're going to be safe. Was I completely unafraid? Heck, no. Was I going to let anybody pick that up from my manner, body language or speech. No way.
I think the demonic can be viewed comparably to some extent - they are evil with some quantifiable parameters, but there is also always the chaos theory element as well - if you tangle with them, no matter how prepared you are, there is always risk involved. You'd have to examine why you're undertaking that risk and what level of risk you're willing to take.
There's lots that can be done to reduce that risk and for some people - its what they do - the demonologists, like Keith and Sandra Johnson, and John Zaffis - for example, who bravely try to help people that have nowhere else to turn - or what they have to do - individuals like Aneaglesangel - who had to take a stand for herself and for her family.
I agree with the matter/anti-matter, good energy vs. bad energy approach. I think evil entities must have more negativity to survive and will do anything to try and get it.
Control of fear is important, but with human beings going up against the inhuman - I don't think it's possible to completely eliminate all fear - we have vestigial survival instincts jammed into our DNA from the dawn of man - I think the "fight or flight response" can be re-channeled very productively, but I don't think it can be eliminated entirely, nor should it be.
Sometimes we humans can get very excited and VERY distracted if we're involved in something that's particularly intriguing to us - and by the time "fight or flight" is telegraphing red flag SOSs to our brain stems, it's one of those "pay attention NOW" type of situations.
I think rebounding negative energy to a negative energy entity might work in the short term - but in the long term, it would only serve to magnify the negative power and strengthen an attraction instead of reducing it.
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Post by lildebcc on Sept 30, 2006 7:18:31 GMT -5
I guess, in the end, if you are bothered by 'negative' or 'evil' entities to the extent of wanting to do something about it to get rid of them or to lash out at them, the best thing to do would be to find someone who knows what they are doing. If you start lashing out at them, in any form, without really knowing what you are doing, you are in big trouble.
Better to find someone that KNOWS than to try it yourself, only to make matters worse. Getting help with things you are not sure of is not the sign of a coward, it is the sign of a smart person.
Being a Martial Artist myself, I agree 100% with you mmecurie. Just because a person is a Martial Artist does not mean that you can win every battle - or any battle for that matter. Like I said before in this thread, 'a true Martial Artist knows that their greatest weapon is their mind'. And if you feel the need to walk away from something instead of stand and fight, then so be it. A brave man does not pick up his fists and fight, he walks away because he knows that he would win anyway; and walking away a winner, without lifting a fist, is a good feeling.
>^o.o^<
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Post by aneaglesangel on Sept 30, 2006 8:46:39 GMT -5
I have to agree there. I believe anything of a nature that we are not sure of, or that we know is evil, is better left alone. Yes, a good martial artist knows when to stand and fight, when to walk away, and when to run!! One of the things I was taught that my best bet is to get away if I'm attacked. That way, if I can get away with minimal fighting, I can live to fight again another day, LOL!!
I am very into respect for the dead, and respect for entities that we don't really know much about. I think a good example of what happens when you disrespect the paranormal is what happened to the soundman of TAPS when they came to the Armory, here in New Bedford. That man got thrown, and I believe it was a respect issue. They were getting emf readings, they ran after them and said, "let's corner this mother f'er" and well, that spirit in the building is a suicide. Sometimes, you can feel the energy that comes out of that building. I can picture Sergeant Delaney knocking that poor guy down and saying "corner this mother f'er!!" To me respect is a very important issue when dealing with the paranormal. Always respect things that you do not know about, or well, they come back and knock ya down!
So yes, I agree, always respect what you are unsure of. Treat it carefully, with respect, and if in doubt, or in trouble, get help!!! I still do believe in the power of our positive emotions, they are just as strong as the negative emotions, and I believe, one of our only weapons if faced with something of this nature. To every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. I think the answer to all of this lies in that one sentence somehow!!
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Post by cottonzway on Sept 30, 2006 13:36:27 GMT -5
Some very interesting replies. Thank you.
I do think that one thing that sticks out to me right away about the martial arts is I may have a different thinking then some of you. It might be due to who I've been trained by or that I consider a lot of the martial arts I do to be more physical then of the spiritual side. Jiu-Jitsu in particular is about being a perfectionist in technique. It's more about physical training for that art then others. The classes involve getting better at the craft. There is running, stretching, technique training, and open mat. It winds up having a spiritual effect by giving you the self confidence in your body.
While I do agree in always walking away from a situation if you can, by all means, the type of situation I am talking about is in a combative situation. I don't agree in the concept of losing there. That isn't to say there isn't you can't lose. It's them mentality of REFUSAL to lose in a volatile situation. It's a mindset I have been taught. If you go into a situation like that with the idea that you may not win your opponent has a mental advantage. I think much of martial arts is imposing your will. I will always impose my will in that situation. If I lose I go down swinging. Die hard. In the words of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu blackbelt Enson Inoue; "There is no better way to die, then to die in the midst of a battle fighting to the very end...like a man." The idea though that I might lose to someone breaking in my house would never cross my mind. This would be an example though of what I am talking about.
I don't at all know how this applies to the sport world. I've never encountered a spirit in general let alone with evil intentions. I also sure don't recommend "trying this at home" either because I don't know much about it. I only as a curious person to the concept of someone who has a will that they impose on people who try to physically harm them. I know there are people who I look at like when Robert Dienro was talking Joe Pesci's charter in Goodfellas. "If you beat up Tommy the next time you better have a knife. If you beat him again you better have a gun and better make sure you finish the job because he will just keep coming after you." I wonder how someone who really lives with that mentality would do if they encountered such an evil spirit.
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fritzy
New Member
Knowledge gained is not Knowledge understood, it is only Gained
Posts: 25
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Post by fritzy on Sept 30, 2006 13:47:19 GMT -5
Anger is not fear, it can be associated with fear, but its not fear. The Mind can trick you so I would not be to privey to use the mind against an unidentified energy form, that could just know a little bit more than you do. This is why one must not go into any situation alone, and if you feel your under somekind of an attack from paranormal beings you should seek help. Dont do it alone. Demons are nothing to full around with, they will make you look at your deepest darkest self and use it against you, in all forms it can manifest. Then again if your a creature of the light you have nothing to worry about now do you? You have to have a strong faith, and most dont cut it, so its best to get in a group, and even the group may not cut it. These things have been around since time began as we know it, you think your smarter than they are? God luck.
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Post by lildebcc on Sept 30, 2006 14:35:01 GMT -5
As I said before, I trained in Tang Soo Do. It is a passive Martial Art. Although the physical act of fighting with someone is not emphasized as much, a perfectionist attitude is still needed; after all, perfect practice makes perfect.
And the actual physical training is tough and grueling. We also do the running, kicking, stretching, sparring, hungs/forms, board breaking, etc. that you probably did.
As far as self-confidence goes, I believe that if you can walk away from a potential fight with your head held high, you are self-confident.
"Fighting" with a spirit/entity is not a combative situation. You can not fight such a thing with the physical body. Like I said, all that negative energy you build up that way will more than likely feed the spirit/entity and make it stronger as well as exhaust and confuse the living. Been there, tried that, failed. Things work much better with a calmer physical body.
>^o.o^<
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Post by aneaglesangel on Sept 30, 2006 14:44:20 GMT -5
Yeah, the martial arts I know focused on all the physical aspects and training, and I have to agree, this does make your mind stronger when you have a strong body. I think that just goes along with the body, mind and spirit just wanting to be in top shape all the way around.
Being able to walk away from a fight, I think is self-confidence too, but being able to hold your own in any situation is also being self-confident. I do agree, anger is not fear, but anger can sometimes be caused by fear. Either way, they're negative emotions that can potentially be energy for anything that feeds off that. When fighting with a demon or negative entity, I agree, you're not fighting with your body, but with your mind and your spirit.
Knowing full well what I went through with the negative energy feeder, getting mad, getting scared, having my mind messed with was what it fed on. As soon as I began study that gave me the confidence to stand up for myself in this thing's realm was probably the only thing that saved me. I'm still not sure how I did it, I'm still trying to learn as much as I can. Yes, I won, yes it is gone, but if given the choice again, I'd make the same choices, and I'd walk away clean, but maybe quite a few years sooner than it did actually take place. So with the experience of a negative entity in my past, I have to say, any living person is better off never having any contact with something of that nature!!
But this was a great question, I think when people can discuss things such as this freely, somehow you end up learning in the end!!
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Post by lildebcc on Sept 30, 2006 14:46:30 GMT -5
One can be angry or calm; all the other subtle emotions we have are off-shoots from one or the other. Anger and fear are made from the same cloth. Fear is a combination of being uncertain, uncomfortable, out of control, and confused. And when either human or animal becomes fearful, they can lash out in an angry rage. Fear - Anger, same thing. That was Psych101 class not to long ago. >^o.o^<
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Post by cottonzway on Sept 30, 2006 14:48:31 GMT -5
Walking away from a situation you can walk away from is ALWAYS the right thing. The thing is though I'm talking about when that is not an option. Much like there is no question that some spirits have an evil intention when you are FORCED to be combative it changes a lot of things.
I consider something that is trying to physically hurt you a combative situation. Now you can't grab it a choke it out, but my thoughts are more so if the person is strong willed that something evil will know to move on to the next prey. I don't think there is any question that when we pass we keep some parts of this world. That is why we often see those who we love. If you can remember things of this world I wonder if a spirit can sense a soul who will not take kindly to it's actions even after that human has passed. Like it's not worth the hassle of bothering a person who is like that because they will show up on that evil spirit's "door step" so to speak when the human leaves the physical world.
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Post by lildebcc on Sept 30, 2006 15:05:47 GMT -5
I get your point. However, I do not believe that we are FORCED to do anyhing in life; it is all a matter of choice, good or bad. If a person says that they are forced to do one thing or another, no matter what it is, it sounds more like they can be swayed or do not want to own the decision of a good or bad choice.
For example, if someone were trying to kill me, I would never say that I was forced to kill them out of self defense. I would own the emotion and action and say that I made the choice to kill them out of self defense, because it was a choice of kill or be killed.
Your point about the human spirit showing up on the evil spirit's door step is interesting. That would have been a good question for Rosemary Ellen Guiley last night. But on the same note, it could also be said that maybe a passive human spirit showing up on an evil spirit's door step would be ignored as well. Thought of as not worth the trouble, not a challenge. Guess it all depends on what that evil spirit is looking for.
>^o.o^<
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